Category: 
I’m baaaack…
For good or ill, I have returned to these pages after my big shebang of sorts of a debut at the Otherwhirled.
You may have read my earlier posts - this was first and then this one came second.
The second post generated a lot more comments. The gist of the whole thing, if you don’t wish to go reread it all was that I was trying to shoot down the idea that somehow atheism is evil because it is somehow related to communism. That is right, me defending - in a manner of speaking - atheism. Or at least defending its place at the table.
The fusion of atheism/communism/evil is very pervasive in our culture, which is really sad – and rather un-Christian, I might add.
I should know – I am an out, loud and so-forth actual living, breathing Catholic woman. Yes – if you don’t know me, I actually attend church all the time, am very involved in my faith, you can call me both spiritual and religious and whatever else you might like.
That said, I am very dedicated to finding ways for people of all paths to connect and communicate. Go ahead, mock me- laugh at me. That’s your goddam problem if you do. What can I tell you.
I simply posit that if we do not find ways to connect on the things we can agree on and/or connect on ways to speak despite our differences, we are sunk.
We can sit here all we want and trash the Republicans and the right, but for good or ill kids, they are still part of the country. Pushing them down when we are up, just means more pushing us down when the cycle changes.
I mean if it is ok for Obama to speak about us talking to Iran - a point I agree with, how can we not sit down at the same table in our own land?
I am not into domination of any sort. It is a big table, can we not all sit down at it in some fashion? I mean, for real kids. Wassup wit dat?
I know – crazy dreamer. (Or nutty Christian? Go ahead say it.)
That said, I am now stuck on how to respond to a comment discussion from the last post.
Blogger Infidel is someone who I like very much, despite our very different view of the world from almost every perspective. This kind of unlikely pairing is just one of the many things I love about blogging.
Now I did happen to get a little heated up in the comments and said:
“Yet I am continually amazed at the cool dismissal of all people of faith by some in the atheist camp.”
To which, Infidel replied:
“I don’t dismiss people of faith. I dismiss faith — and I condemn it as evil and dangerous.
And I’ve given here what I consider to be solid, rational reasons for doing so.
With all due respect I ask you to acknowledge the distinction — and address the argument”.
To which I said:
“Infidel - I stand corrected. I may do many things but I will not deny when I have mis-spoken, as I have here and I apologize.
That said, the condemnation of all faith as evil and dangerous, just strikes me as extreme.
Yes, I am aware that there are many so-called religious types who condemn atheists as evil and dangerous, but for good or ill, as a Catholic they think the same of me.
Having said all this- and I am not shirking away, I am about to go out of town for a few days and will not be able to reply more fully.
What I will do is to work on this as a post.
Fair enough? I hope so- it is what I am doing and all that I can do given time constraints at this moment.”
And Infidel – being a very decent guy as far as I can tell came back with:
“Fran — while I stand by the substance of my comment, the tone in which I wrote it was arrogant and rude, and I apologize for that. (Insert - apology not necessary but accepted. You are a gracious guy.)
All I can add is to say that, paraphrasing John Barth, what someone believes is less important than why he believes it. I don’t merely assert that faith is evil and dangerous, I give my reasons for believing that — and it’s the reasons which are the core of my point.”
I am compelled to add to this already too long post, what Commander Other, Atheist in Chief around here added:
“ah. something i have “believed” for a long time, indeed, something in which i myself have “faith”, is that there is no God. for, just as there is no proof there is a God, there is likewise no proof that there isn’t one. what many of us atheists fail to realize is that define it however we may, couch it in whatever terms we like, spin it however we desire, the exercise of, and conformance to, any worldview requires a form of faith. even if it’s just the faith in the veracity of one’s presumably intellectually superior position.
i never lose site of that, and i recommend that my fellow atheists keep it in mind as well. there is no scientific evidence for the lack of spirituality; we simply have faith that spirituality is errant because there is no scientific evidence for its existence. neither “side” of the issue can prove, or disprove, the other.”
All this is to say I am not sure where to go with this. This is what I hate about this kind of conversation… I feel frustrated at how to reply. I don’t see where I can go when I am part of something wholly condemned as evil and dangerous. Deep sigh.
Honestly, I think there are plenty of crazy-ass atheists to compliment the bountiful amount of crazy-ass Christians. And I have a real problem with crazy-ass Christians that deem Atheism as dark, dangerous or evil.
In my estimation, any belief system – or lack of one in this case, which in its own way creates a something that is hard to define, can be a pathway of healing or a pathway of destruction.
Anything can have holes poked in it. If I were to denounce Atheism I would be essentially be saying that I am right and you are wrong. And honestly, this is not even about right or wrong to me.
As for religion being condemned across the board for being dangerous and evil?
Where can I go from there Infidel? Religion is often dangerous and evil. So is being American, being human, being anything… even being an Atheist. Dangerous and evil are not so selective in general.It is what you do with it, not what it does with you.
I would love to see some conversation generated around this – by those who believe and those who do not, if possible.
And I think after this, I may just STFU about this topic for awhile… It is conversation that I long for and not dead ends. Infidel, correct me if I am wrong, but this feels like a dead end to me.
Opinions? Ideas? Comments? This is one long motherfucker of a post. Has anyone made it to the end???
